seiken_densetsu_3_magic_casting.txt - PentaroX's Magic Casting FAQ v1.7 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ PentaroX's SD3 Magic Casting FAQ v1.7 | 07/14 | pentarou@NOSHPAMnekonekowai.com (remove "NOSHPAM" before emailing) You can find this FAQ at GameFAQs, About.com, and ... some other places. Either way, there's also a copy at http://www.pentarou.f2s.com/faq/. Table of Contents ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 0. Updates 1. Overview 2. Basic Magic Casting 3. Magic Casting Techniques (Basic Spam, Basic MST, Spam/MST, etc.) 4. Credits 5. Legal Mumbo-Jumbo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 0. Updates ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 06/04: First version of this FAQ. I'm sure I must be missing a lot of good Spam/MST info, but this FAQ was rather hastily slapped together. 06/11: Section 2.5 updated. Some credits added. 06/27: Added proper credits. Changed some text around. Added stuff to section 3. (2001) 03/11: Revised it a little bit. Dubbed it "v1.6" =P 07/14: Slight corrections/etc., but most importantly, MY EMAIL HAS CHANGED. No more emailing px@pentaro.net, 'kay? It's down. I've been considering re-writing the FAQ. Maybe another day... I'm way too busy to do anything major at this point. 1. Overview ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Once upon a time, there was a FAQ. It was spiffy. It had lots of stuff in it. It was over 300kb. In fact, it was Magus's FAQ. (Although I've forgotten whatever it is that he goes by now.) I contributed a bit of stuff, but most of what I had written turned out to be about a particular magic casting technique I'd been working on. But having tested it so very much, and written so much about it, I thought that I should write up a FAQ on the subject of casting magic. Please note that most, if not all, credits are listed at the bottom. I prefer not to list them in the body of the FAQ, but rather all at once. And go look at Magus's FAQ, because some of the stuff here is his work, and because it's big and spiffy. (Although I don't like the party guide, but I suppose that doesn't matter.) 2. Basic Magic Casting ------------------------------------------------------------------------ The SD3 magic system is quite different from that of Secret of Mana (SD2). First off, although the elementals are still in existence, each of your characters will only gain spells through their classes. Up to something like 18 spells per character may be obtained throughout the course of the game, and those are all sorted out in one single ring. Each spell in SD3, much like most other console RPGs, uses an amount of MP. However, in SD3 one is only able to carry 9 Faerie Walnuts, each of which only recover 20 MP. The only other two methods of gaining MP are via Angel Grails (i.e. you die) or by using Dryad spells (Leaf Saber, Pumpkin/Grenade Bomb, Poison Bubble). Thus MP, while not exactly *scarce* in availability, still needs to be conserved. Furthermore, since SD3 battles are in real-time, all magic spells also have a delay time (unlike SD2) before casting. It seems that the more MP a spell costs, the longer the spell takes to cast, but that may not be the only factor. Also, time spent visiting the item/magic rings count as real time as well, and so this allows for the technique called Spam/MST (see the next section). Time spent in the duration of a spell, such as the Ancient spell which takes aeons to finish casting, is also counted as real-time, which comes in very handy. It is important to note that during the "delay time" of a spell, no special attributes (poison, et al) will affect the party member OR enemy casting a spell, but it is still possible for a member to take damage. If a member is "killed," the HP goes down to 1, and after the spell is cast, the party member/enemy dies. Level 2 and 3 techs in SD3 count as spells. This is because like spells, the screen darkens, the name of the tech is placed on the top of the screen, and time "pauses" for the duration of the technique. Items are much like Level 2/3 techniques. The difference between techs, items, and spells is that techs have no delay time, but may have lower priority than an enemy spell (i.e. you may have to wait after pressing the "Tech" button - usually B), items have no delay time and maximum priority (as soon as you select an item, it "casts"), and spells have delay time and priority increases if the spell's delay time is "over" - that is, if the spell was supposed to cast but hasn't yet. All of this leads to Spam/MST as is described in the next section. Most spells do relatively little damage for the MP usage, except for those which the enemy is weak against (i.e. using Evil Gate on Bucca Island). Thus, it is generally a better idea to whack enemies with weapons, which do more damage, or else to cast spell-ups or saber magics. In other words, I don't like Angela at all. So why am I writing a FAQ on magic casting? Because this is how I play when I use Angela. 3. Magic Casting Techniques (Spam/MST et al.) ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Having said all of that stuff in section 2 about spell delay time, one would think that spells can turn out to be pretty ineffective. And they are. Most attack spells take too long to cast, and don't do quite as much damage as using a saber-spell / power-up spell and simply whacking an enemy in the meanwhile. However, there are a bunch of techniques which will come up to be very handy, and often will make spells particularly effective. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Minor Table of Contents 1. Basic MST - Magic Succession Trick 2. Basic Spam Magic - Magic Delay Reduction 2.5.Spam Magic with Techs/Items 3. Spam/MST - the Kill Everything in your Path combination 4. Spamming Aura Wave (yeouch) 5. Death-Defying recovery Trick (DDT ^_^) 6. Additional Comments ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1) Basic MST - Magic Succession Trick Originally 'discovered,' or rather reported, by Articuno3476346 (I don't know what the exact numbers are and I'm too lazy to repeat them. Pretty much, the credit is simply for coining the term MST), the MST allows you to cast several spells at once. Here, I elaborate on the nature of said trick. In Basic MST, you select a main party member which has the worst spells in the party (usually the fighter). Then, you cast a spell with one party member, then during that delay time you cast a spell with the second party member. If necessary you can cast a spell with your main party member. Since you've taken all that time accessing your menu, real time has been passing by and the first two spells will be cast. At this time, if you have selected a third spell, that will also be cast. However, in using Basic MST it is advantageous only to cast two spells, because this way your hero character can sit there and lay down the shmack in the form of lots of physical attacks on, say, a boss. Furthermore, when used in conjunction with spam-magic, you either want a main character so that you can quickly tap the X (menu) button or so that you can quickly tap B (tech) and cast a level-2 technique. 2) Basic Spam-Magic - Magic Delay Reduction For those of you who have played on MUDs, you know what spamming magic is - simply keep entering "cast attack spell" again and again and again. Those of you who have played SD2 (Secret of Mana) should remember spamming Thunderbolt again and again as well. Originally, this was the idea behind Spam-Magic for SD3, however since having played and experimented a lot, it seems that the main idea behind Spam Magic is to reduce delay time on spells to zero. This comes in extraordinarily handy with support spells like Heal Light and Power Up. Basic Spam-Magic involves hammering with only one spell. Advanced Spam-Magic is covered under Spam/MST. In Basic Spam-Magic, you select one spell and cast it with your support party member. After selection of a spell, quickly tap the X button to go back to your own menu. Since spell delay time passes in real-time, simply allow time to pass while watching your item ring or whatever. In fact, hold right if you wish to watch your item ring spin 'round and 'round and 'round. When you feel that enough time has passed (allow extra time, say 20-30 seconds, for spells like Ancient and such) you may cancel the menu ring. The spell which you have selected will instantaneously cast. [Note: If you are using an emulator, save state before cancelling your menu ring. If the spell doesn't cast because a boss's spell is taking higher priority, simply load state, and sit for another ten to twenty seconds (the fastforward key helps here). Then save state again and NOW cancel the menu ring. It may take several save states if you are having trouble with a particular high-priority spell, like a magic counter-spell which a boss is using against you.] If you are quick enough in tapping your X button, you can repeat the basic Spam trick. This allows you to cast lots and lots of spells without taking *ANY* damage whatsoever. Most bosses become a joke if you have the patience (I don't) to repeat this continuously with a very powerful spell. This is even more true with the Spam/MST trick. Most of the time when using Basic Spam Magic, you'll probably find that you're casting Heal Light and such spells - in which case you only cast a single spell with spam-magic. If you're casting attack spells, Spam/MST is likely to be far more effective. But single-spam with Heal Light is a really good idea, because this eliminates delay time, which means that a single dose of Heal Light is essentially like using an item (remember that normally, it takes time to cast Heal Light and so your weakened party member has a chance of getting killed before you cast the heal spell). On the other hand, though, this is why Carlie is so good: at high levels, she has VIRTUALLY NO LAG TIME when casting Heal Light. You won't even need Spam/MST. *VERY IMPORTANT NOTE* It should be noted that many bosses have a counter for each magic spell/level 2+ tech/attack-magic item that you cast. Examples are the infamous Bill and Ben [Shadow Dive], the Dark-Shine Knight [Random dark sword techs], Jagan [DeathSpell], and others. So be careful when using Spam and/or MST. Save state often. If you get caught off-guard, you could potentially be hit with tons upon tons of party-destroying spells. Some enemies randomly counter, but others (Bill and Ben) are almost guaranteed to counter each and every spell/tech you use. And Shadow Dive %@$#ing HURTS. Turn off your allies' level two techs before you fight them the second time. 2.5) Delay Reduction with Items/Techs Remeber, since techs and items have no delay time, you may wish to have your main character save up for a tech or something, use MST to cast two spells, and then use your tech/item very quickly after having selected your two spells. Since techs and items have a duration of their own which passes in real-time, they will help the magic delay time to go down, after which your two party members's spells will be cast. A fairly simple example of this is to cast attack spells during battle as soon as you have saved up a Level 2/3 technique for your main fighter character. This comes in handy for those who prefer to deal damager rather than A much more useful example of this, is to save up a level 1 tech with the character you're controlling. Press B to use the tech, and then immediately afterwards press X and pick out a spell for general consumption. The time spent performing the tech counts as part of the 3) Spam/MST - the Kill Everything In Your Path combination Ah, now something really useful. Since Spam-Magic is essentially the removal of delay time, this allows for some pretty amazing spamming of magic when you use the MST in conjunction. In other words, Spam/MST is the savior of those who don't level up enough. :) Simply cast one spell, then another, then access your main party's menu ring. Use your little Blaster Master trick *grin* and wait for a few seconds. Let go and you get to cast two spells. Now if you have time, after the first spell casts, quickly access the menu ring and use that first party member to cast a spell...again. Do this with the second and third and fourth... et al. spells. This is simply a much-more-efficient version of Spam Magic. But since it incorporates ideas from MST, I'm calling it Spam/MST. If you really want your main char to be casting spells, you can actually do so. Instead of cancelling the menu when you feel that your spells are ready to cast, go and select a spell instead. Thus your third spell should cast sometime soon after the first two. The disadvantage, and it's quite a big one at that, of this technique is that you no longer have the ability to access your menu button from the main character. IMHO this is most definitely not worth it, as you have to *wait* before you can start another round of spells. However, more often than not, you will only be using Spam/MST for a single round of spells. For example, if you're beginning a boss battle, you want to cast things like Lunatic, Power/Mind/Speed/Def-Up, AND any sabers - all as quickly as possible. Do so with Spam/MST. ... wait, actually that requires several shots of spells. But during the middle of a battle, you probably want to only use single shots of your Spam/MST spells so that you can continue whacking away with your weapons -- since we impatient people hate waiting for spells to cast, and besides, weapons tend to do more damage in less time. An important note to keep in mind when using Spam/MST is that you want to cast LONGER-DURATION spells, i.e. Ancient, first. Longer duration means that you can waste more time waiting for your other spells to cast - which gives them higher priority with regards to the enemy and/or boss's own spells. This isn't always possible, however, because if you cast Ancient, and then Heal Light using Carlie, using Spam/MST will probably result in Carlie casting Heal Light first. Another important note is that with those bosses which counter spells/level 2+ techs -- if you stop for even one second while doing your little Spam/MST trick, chances are pretty good that you'll be TOAST and then some. I forgot to mention this, but I think the Dragon Emperor counters with Ancient. Although that isn't half as bad as Bill and Ben, or Jagan. Sigh...for something so awesome I don't seem to be doing it justice by only having a few paragraphs on the subject. Hehe. 4) Spamming Aura Wave (yeouch) Since you don't get Aura Wave until your third class change, let's just forget about anything below that class. Besides, Aura Wave means little beneath that point. I believe Grell Oils cast Aura Wave, as well as ... Gold Wolf Souls? ... but it doesn't matter all that much. If you like, go ahead and collect those items, using them all at once - this is actually a pretty good idea because it allows for some instant dealing of large amounts of damage - with potential to do more than DeathSpell, even at lower levels. Frankly, Aura Wave is the most kick-ass spell in existence when used in conjunction with Spam/MST. Simply make sure your main party member has a good, single-target (Lise Star Lancer for example) level 3 tech, and that an alternate party member has Aura Wave. Two characters have this spell - Kevin as God Hand and Hawk as Wanderer. Kevin might be a better choice because you'll end up using Hawk's MP for other things, like attacking and such. No, on second thought, Hawk can sap MP as the Wanderer if you have Poison Bubble and if the current enemy is weak enough against it. Besides...Aura Wave only costs 3 MP. Now, in the process of using Spam/MST, make sure one of your spells is Aura Wave, and that it is cast on your main character. As soon as the spells are cast, hold the B button. Hopefully you will instantly use your Level 3 tech. With any luck you may end up casting the level 3 tech a second time (Thanks so much to that guy in Magus's FAQ for telling us all about that trick) for a net of something like 1000-2000 HP of damage. If you are sick enough so as to have Angela sufficiently leveled up (say level 60 or so) with DeathSpell, you can increase the damage per round to the amount of 2000-3000 HP. Which, of course, is utterly and madly sick and terrifying, but anyhow. As soon as your tech is done casting (once or twice) quickly begin the madness again by tapping the X button and making your usual Spam/MST rounds. But again, I hate waiting, and so I don't often do this. 5) Death-Defying recovery Trick (DDT ^_-) This is also listed in Magus's FAQ, and it was added by somebody or another (I will check all these names at some point...). It's really useful... I mean, USEFUL. It isn't the same as Spam/MST, but it's still a magic casting technique, and it's important for survival. Since your HP remains at 1 if you are casting a spell, when a party member of yours "dies," quickly have him/her cast a spell, and then use a healing item on said member. There isn't really a good way of using Heal Light in this situation, unless you think you can spam Heal Light faster than your party member dies. However, remember to let your party members who are low on MP die, as Angel Grails will restore MP. This comes in handy, simply 'cause you get another 99 or so MP (ehehe) with which to spam DeathSpell/Marduk until things die and the sky falls down. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6) Additional Comments ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Non-elemental spells and Aura Wave are extremely useful for most battles. If you have them...use them! > Marduk, while it doesn't do great damage, silences, which is the most useful thing you could possibly ask for from a summon spell. Stun Wind and Stone Cloud are REALLY handy. But, for bosses, most effects (besides Lunatic) are pointless, in which case you want to have Marduk anyway, in addition to spells like DeathSpell, Double Spell, Rainbow, Ancient, all that jazz...level 3 elemental spells are fine, but the problem with final bosses is that they don't like elemental spells all too much...and most of them change elements from time to time (making people with sabers spiffy!). Okay, admittedly petrify is far superior to silence, because it rocks (literally and figuratively). However, note that this has a tendency not to work on Dark Priests / Mages, because often they'll be casting spells when you petrify them, which means that they will be immune to the petrification. Oh well...nothing's perfect. > One should note that level 2+ elemental spells, Angela's final spells, and Lise's summons, among other spells, are best used with the Spam/MST trick simply because they take so long to cast. > *NEW* and *IMPROVED* and *IMPORTANT*: If your main character has an attack spell which you would like to use, save up for a level 1 tech. When you have your tech, use it to attack, but as soon as you press the B button, press ... uh ... X for your *own* menu ring. Cast a spell. Since you're already performing a tech, you won't stop, however this cuts down bigtime on the "delay time" since you're invincible during a level 1 tech. (hah...I said "Big time." One day I'll be running for veep, just you wait Dick Cheney!) > This is unrelated, but when you level up, there's a significant delay time before the music starts up again (after you've picked your stat). If you have a level 1 tech saved up, just hold down the B button and whack away several times, because you won't see any damage and the meter won't go down - BUT the damage will all show up after the music starts again. This is crazy with Hawk, Kevin, and Lise - but especially Lise (surprise!). If you don't have any tech saved up, then go ahead and use regular attacks (here Kevin is better). Whatever it is you're attacking is dead meat. > More notes on sapping MP: (1) In increasing power, the Druid attack-sap spells can be ranked thusly: (weak) Pumpkin Bomb [Item: Pumpkin Bomb ] (medium) Grenade Bomb [Item: ...spell only? ] (strong) Poison Bubble [Item: Assassin Bug Eye] It's a very good idea to stock up on Assassin Bug Eyes. Don't use them at the beginning of the game, just stick them in storage and save them for later bosses: they sap more MP than Grenade Bomb, and of course, it doesn't cost MP to cast if you're using the bug-eyes. (2) Leaf Saber is much more effective in general, since it can be cast on anyone, and weapons hurt, and stuff. > Silver Dart is the greatest spell in the game. It costs 2 MP, has a faster casting time than even Holy Orb or whatever that spell is called, (Holy Ball?!) does more damage than Holy Orb... this is the main reason IMO that Hawk kicks serious butt as a Rogue. Run about leveling up, cast Silver Dart until you're low on MP (save about 30!) and then continually cast Pumpkin Bomb until you get your MP back...then repeat! Remember to use this if you're in the Dark Castle level...it costs a hell of a lot less than DeathSpell, and you don't have to be higher level than the enemy, unlike Turn Undead. Don't even bother with Spam/MST when using Silver Dart...the casting time is so incredibly quick it doesn't really matter. 4. Credits ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Original FAQ idea by PentaroX, of course. The great majority of the FAQ was written by myself. Lots of ideas, however, come from people listed below. Lots of thanks to Magus, for that amazing 350+kb FAQ of his, and for posting all that crap I emailed to him before writing this FAQ. :) Thanks to that Articuno guy for being the first to report the MST trick. ^_^ And thanks for arguing in regards to the superiority of MST, because frankly I wouldn't have written this FAQ about Spam/MST if I hadn't read your comments. Hehe, and they say conflict does nothing for the good of humanity. Credit for that stuff about the DDT (which is my name for the trick, btw) goes to whoever is listed in Magus's FAQ. Go check that FAQ for just about anything SD3 which you could possibly wish to know about. Same goes for the person who mentioned that holding the B button down will allow you to cast your techs twice in a row occasionally. This is what makes spamming Aura Wave so crazy and invaluable. There's some other really good stuff at GameFAQs.com, which is the reason I had any idea about SD3 FAQs, and half of the reason for my writing this FAQ. Amazing. Thanks to Pioneer for producing El Hazard, which has kept me occupied while bored. Also thanks to Square for producing the Seiken Densetsu series of games. Thanks to Microsoft for making this crap operating system which I'm still using (because I can't get Linux working), among other things. Thank you, the reader, for putting up with me. Thanks to the number 42. And many thanks to the Tootsie Pop company for creating the post-modern paradox of licks(tm). Finally, remember that THE CAT IS WIN: http://www.fansview.com/2001/animeexpo/0708b105.jpg 5. Legal Mumbo-Jumbo ------------------------------------------------------------------------ This document is copyright by PentaroX, 2000. Those who wish to use the FAQ for non-commercial purposes may do so, but I require that you send me an email at pentarou@NOSHPAMnekonekowai.com (remove the NOSHPAM) first simply to inform me of your use of my FAQ. Portions which have been taken from contributors are copyrighted by the respective contributors. Commercial usage is strictly prohibited. This also includes translating my FAQs into Swahili and then selling them printed on wee little sheets of paper. No, I don't want to join any websites or buy any candy. I don't talk to strangers. They're evil. Yeah. Strangers are evil. Also, if you have anything to do with eFront, go away. ------------------------------------------------------------------------